babyj
Sep 19, 10:18 AM
30 days on refurbs might mean something actually...
Any ideas?
I've always assumed that it means they've got a warehouse full of returns that they're working their way through and that they prioritise on the items they want to get shot of quickly. If correct, a longer lead time would suggest no updates due in the near future so they can take their time getting rid of the stock.
But then I'm also suspicious they ain't all returns and that they scuff the cases on all the excess stock so they can knock them out cheap without upsetting anyone.
Any ideas?
I've always assumed that it means they've got a warehouse full of returns that they're working their way through and that they prioritise on the items they want to get shot of quickly. If correct, a longer lead time would suggest no updates due in the near future so they can take their time getting rid of the stock.
But then I'm also suspicious they ain't all returns and that they scuff the cases on all the excess stock so they can knock them out cheap without upsetting anyone.
LightSpeed1
Apr 11, 04:08 PM
Wow. You'd think a FCP Users group would be able to track down a halfway decent graphic artist to make their banner graphic...Funny.
Cabbit
Mar 26, 05:51 AM
Im guessing its going to be �45 from the app store (same as aperture). And they'll be no boxed version, or the boxed version will be prohibitory expensive to discourage buying the boxed version.
And i am looking forward to using it as a main OS, i love the better use of the trackpad and removal of visible scroll bars.
And i am looking forward to using it as a main OS, i love the better use of the trackpad and removal of visible scroll bars.
Gugulino
Apr 6, 04:17 AM
Looking for some controversy are we?!!! :rolleyes:
No, I really think that iMovie is a good example of video-editing software. Did Apple changed FCP's look and feel in the last few years? No! It is outdated, that you have to admit for sure. iMovie has a far more modern UI, which should be adopted by FCP somehow. I didn't mean FCP should lose all its Pro-features. FCP could also adopt the easy way of handling your footage: In iMovie I see what I shot and can quickly add clips to the project without setting in and out points manually. And what about the precision-editor? For one project I abandoned FCP just because it has no precision editor.
I think FCP could learn a lot from iMovie. And if the same man, who created iMovie, is also the chief of the Final Cut Studio Developer Team, it will happen!
No, I really think that iMovie is a good example of video-editing software. Did Apple changed FCP's look and feel in the last few years? No! It is outdated, that you have to admit for sure. iMovie has a far more modern UI, which should be adopted by FCP somehow. I didn't mean FCP should lose all its Pro-features. FCP could also adopt the easy way of handling your footage: In iMovie I see what I shot and can quickly add clips to the project without setting in and out points manually. And what about the precision-editor? For one project I abandoned FCP just because it has no precision editor.
I think FCP could learn a lot from iMovie. And if the same man, who created iMovie, is also the chief of the Final Cut Studio Developer Team, it will happen!
obeygiant
Apr 27, 09:30 AM
Why should he? He released the short form BC, which is valid and legal proof of citizenship.
Hawaii law states that no one can request an original long form BC, not even the person who's name is on the BC, so Obama had to call in a few favors to get this. I'm surprised the right wing loons aren't accusing him of overstepping his bounds and destroying states' rights to get it.
Well I think he always could get the long form certificate you just have to file a freedom of information request and they have to go into a vault to get it. It takes weeks and about 10 man hours and costs money. The short form certificate which incidentally is more official takes about 10 minutes of standing in line.
Hawaii law states that no one can request an original long form BC, not even the person who's name is on the BC, so Obama had to call in a few favors to get this. I'm surprised the right wing loons aren't accusing him of overstepping his bounds and destroying states' rights to get it.
Well I think he always could get the long form certificate you just have to file a freedom of information request and they have to go into a vault to get it. It takes weeks and about 10 man hours and costs money. The short form certificate which incidentally is more official takes about 10 minutes of standing in line.
Reach
Sep 19, 11:17 AM
- 2 CPU cores compared to 1 CPU core
- Radically greater FSB bandwidth
- PC2-5300 DDR2 memory compared to PC2-4200 DDR2
- PCIe 16x for graphics controller compared to AGP 8x
- Improved graphics controller with more VRAM
- Dedicated 1.5 Gbps SATA for hard disk compared to UATA-100
- ExpressCard/34 (has PCIe 1x and USB 2.0) compared to CardBus
- MagSafe power connector
- Built-in iSight camera
- etc.
The ExpressCard alone allows high-speed adapters to external SATA, FireWire, Fibre Channel, etc. devices. It allows for some interesting flexibility that never existed with the PowerBooks.
It still LOOKS (practically) the same as my 3 year old Powerbook did, that's the problem for many I think. :) Not that it should be a problem, because it looks great, but Apple has improved/changed great design before, so we kind of expect them to continue that tradition.
Anyway, it can continue to look the same, my 3 year old one is already sold, so I just want Apple to let me order a new one. :) A NEW one, with C2D that is, not a "new" one that was announced quite some time ago.
- Radically greater FSB bandwidth
- PC2-5300 DDR2 memory compared to PC2-4200 DDR2
- PCIe 16x for graphics controller compared to AGP 8x
- Improved graphics controller with more VRAM
- Dedicated 1.5 Gbps SATA for hard disk compared to UATA-100
- ExpressCard/34 (has PCIe 1x and USB 2.0) compared to CardBus
- MagSafe power connector
- Built-in iSight camera
- etc.
The ExpressCard alone allows high-speed adapters to external SATA, FireWire, Fibre Channel, etc. devices. It allows for some interesting flexibility that never existed with the PowerBooks.
It still LOOKS (practically) the same as my 3 year old Powerbook did, that's the problem for many I think. :) Not that it should be a problem, because it looks great, but Apple has improved/changed great design before, so we kind of expect them to continue that tradition.
Anyway, it can continue to look the same, my 3 year old one is already sold, so I just want Apple to let me order a new one. :) A NEW one, with C2D that is, not a "new" one that was announced quite some time ago.
BackInTheSaddle
Aug 26, 10:00 AM
A lot of it is perception...if you don't get a defect, the product is great. But as the chairman of Matsushita (Panasonic) once observed about product quality, no matter how high your standards are, for the person getting a problem unit, your quality is 100% defective. I'm paraphrasing, but that's the essence of it. There are more people buying Apple computers today than ever before, so there will be a much larger volume of problems.
I've had great experiences with Applecare so far, only one instance where I felt the person was reading his answers off a cue card. If I talk to an engineer, I get someone who knows the product, understands the problem I'm explaining and is actually able to solve the problem, in American English so far, thank God. Don't know what tech support is like for those folks outside of the USA and Canada, but Apple gets a big thumbs up from me. (That doesn't apply to .Mac however; Apple REALLY needs to improve support there.)
And for my money, Dell and Toshiba could learn a thing or two from Apple on how to provide tech support.
I've had great experiences with Applecare so far, only one instance where I felt the person was reading his answers off a cue card. If I talk to an engineer, I get someone who knows the product, understands the problem I'm explaining and is actually able to solve the problem, in American English so far, thank God. Don't know what tech support is like for those folks outside of the USA and Canada, but Apple gets a big thumbs up from me. (That doesn't apply to .Mac however; Apple REALLY needs to improve support there.)
And for my money, Dell and Toshiba could learn a thing or two from Apple on how to provide tech support.
SPUY767
Aug 17, 10:48 AM
I would have thought that the Final Cut Pro benchmark would have really blown away the G5 - not so much, right?
Awesome on FileMaker and I can't wait to see how this stuff runs Adobe PS Natively.
The vague manner in which they described the test, it seems like this may have been more of an I/O problem than a processing one. Can't say for sure.
Awesome on FileMaker and I can't wait to see how this stuff runs Adobe PS Natively.
The vague manner in which they described the test, it seems like this may have been more of an I/O problem than a processing one. Can't say for sure.
dgree03
Apr 6, 03:58 PM
1. Have you seen how those apps "scale" on XOOM? That doesn't make them optimized for tablets, just fit more screen space and even that doesn't work that well.
2. Bull.
YOU apparently havent seen how apps scale first hand. Like i said ill take that over x1, x2 ANY day.
Scale?? Access to each other??
I'm beginning to wonder if you have ever used EITHER iOS or Android.
HAHA, Yes I own a XOOM and a Ipad 2(previously Ipad 1).
YOU apparently havent used either at any length.
My point still stands, I can use less apps to accomplish the same goals on a XOOM than i can on a Ipad.
If you have any other first hand usage that proves me wrong.. go for it.
2. Bull.
YOU apparently havent seen how apps scale first hand. Like i said ill take that over x1, x2 ANY day.
Scale?? Access to each other??
I'm beginning to wonder if you have ever used EITHER iOS or Android.
HAHA, Yes I own a XOOM and a Ipad 2(previously Ipad 1).
YOU apparently havent used either at any length.
My point still stands, I can use less apps to accomplish the same goals on a XOOM than i can on a Ipad.
If you have any other first hand usage that proves me wrong.. go for it.
twoodcc
Aug 5, 08:41 PM
NO iPODS OR iPHONE I DON'T CARE FOR THEM ONE JOT
Ok, Stevie J, You can introduce the Mac Pro, the new XServe, and Leopard on Monday.
But please don't deny us our new conroe iMac with x1800XT! Release it on Tuesday!!! And Merom Macbooks and Macbook Pros. You will lose too many sales and potential switchers if you wait until the end of September!
Plus I'll cry.
We beggs of you Stevie J, we wants it, we needs it, it must come to me!
The iMac Ultra is mine. My own. My precious.
Alright, give precious back to master now......
Ok, Stevie J, You can introduce the Mac Pro, the new XServe, and Leopard on Monday.
But please don't deny us our new conroe iMac with x1800XT! Release it on Tuesday!!! And Merom Macbooks and Macbook Pros. You will lose too many sales and potential switchers if you wait until the end of September!
Plus I'll cry.
We beggs of you Stevie J, we wants it, we needs it, it must come to me!
The iMac Ultra is mine. My own. My precious.
Alright, give precious back to master now......
citizenzen
Mar 22, 11:00 AM
Oh yeah... and here's a fun little nugget for those who like to tout Obama's coalition:
I'm confused. :confused:
What point is 5P trying to make here?
Is the fact that one list contains more countries by count make it superior to the second? Is that the only way to judge a coalition, by count?
That seems a little too simplistic to me.
For instance, I added up these two lists (after removing duplicates) according to how much the countries spend on their military ...
• Coalition Countries - Iraq - 2003 ~ 152 billion
• Coalition - Libya - 2011 ~ 179 billion
I guess it's just how you want to look at it. :cool:
I'm confused. :confused:
What point is 5P trying to make here?
Is the fact that one list contains more countries by count make it superior to the second? Is that the only way to judge a coalition, by count?
That seems a little too simplistic to me.
For instance, I added up these two lists (after removing duplicates) according to how much the countries spend on their military ...
• Coalition Countries - Iraq - 2003 ~ 152 billion
• Coalition - Libya - 2011 ~ 179 billion
I guess it's just how you want to look at it. :cool:
pyramid6
Mar 22, 01:16 PM
It's going to come down to the experience, and the experience is in the apps.
Developers aren't going to create applications for the Android, unless people buy them, people are not going to buy Android tablets unless there are applications. The same thing with RIM.
Developers aren't going to create applications for the Android, unless people buy them, people are not going to buy Android tablets unless there are applications. The same thing with RIM.
jhedges3
Aug 11, 03:24 PM
First, what makes you think the cellusage is similar to internet????? Mind blowing step here.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics
World demographics are not the point. US consumers do not make their cell phone purchasing decisions based on signal standards in 'Europa' or elsewhere.
Secondly, Europa has 291 million internet users; North america US&Canada 227 milion; Rest of the world 500 million
Hence europe would be close to 30% of the total market???? What about india??? Japan??? china??? come on you cant say jack *** from this statistics
World demographics are not the point. US consumers do not make their cell phone purchasing decisions based on signal standards in 'Europa' or elsewhere.
orkle
Nov 29, 06:53 AM
The iTunes Store wouldn't be where it is today if Universal Music hadn't been so forthcoming with getting their catalogue on there.
Machead III
Sep 19, 11:52 AM
lolol did you see Steve? He invented MacTop. new laptoP.
rofl. it is g5
rofl. it is g5
aohus
Apr 19, 02:35 PM
WRONG. A lot of modern GUI elements are INVENTED by Apple:
http://obamapacman.com/2010/03/myth-copyright-theft-apple-stole-gui-from-xerox-parc-alto/
WRONG! They weren't invented at Apple's Cupertino HQ, they were invented back in Palo Alto (Xerox PARC).
Secondly, your source is a pro-Apple website. Thats a problem right there.
I'll give you a proper source, the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/20/business/xerox-vs-apple-standard-dashboard-is-at-issue.html), which wrote an article on Xerox vs Apple back in 1989, untarnished, in its raw form. Your 'source' was cherry picking data.
Here is one excerpt.
Then Apple CEO John Sculley stated:
Apple may face special problems because of admissions made by its chairman, John Sculley, in his 1987 book, ''Odyssey,'' a chronicle of his split with Apple's co-founder, Steven P. Jobs. ''Much of the Macintosh technology wasn't invented in the building,'' he wrote. ''Indeed, the Mac, like the Lisa before it, was largely a conduit for technology developed'' at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center.
^^ thats a GLARING admission, by the CEO of Apple, don't you think? Nevertheless, Xerox ended up losing that lawsuit, with some saying that by the time they filed that lawsuit it was too late. The lawsuit wasn't thrown out because they didn't have a strong case against Apple, but because of how the lawsuit was presented as is at the time.
I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am saying is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Rank_Xerox_8010%2B40_brochure_front.jpg
http://obamapacman.com/2010/03/myth-copyright-theft-apple-stole-gui-from-xerox-parc-alto/
WRONG! They weren't invented at Apple's Cupertino HQ, they were invented back in Palo Alto (Xerox PARC).
Secondly, your source is a pro-Apple website. Thats a problem right there.
I'll give you a proper source, the NYTimes (http://www.nytimes.com/1989/12/20/business/xerox-vs-apple-standard-dashboard-is-at-issue.html), which wrote an article on Xerox vs Apple back in 1989, untarnished, in its raw form. Your 'source' was cherry picking data.
Here is one excerpt.
Then Apple CEO John Sculley stated:
Apple may face special problems because of admissions made by its chairman, John Sculley, in his 1987 book, ''Odyssey,'' a chronicle of his split with Apple's co-founder, Steven P. Jobs. ''Much of the Macintosh technology wasn't invented in the building,'' he wrote. ''Indeed, the Mac, like the Lisa before it, was largely a conduit for technology developed'' at Xerox's Palo Alto Research Center.
^^ thats a GLARING admission, by the CEO of Apple, don't you think? Nevertheless, Xerox ended up losing that lawsuit, with some saying that by the time they filed that lawsuit it was too late. The lawsuit wasn't thrown out because they didn't have a strong case against Apple, but because of how the lawsuit was presented as is at the time.
I'm not saying that Apple stole IP from Xerox, but what I am saying is that its quite disappointing to see Apple fanboys trying to distort the past into making it seem as though Apple created the first GUI, when that is CLEARLY not the case. The GUI had its roots in Xerox PARC. That, is a FACT.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Rank_Xerox_8010%2B40_brochure_front.jpg
borisadmin
Jul 27, 10:52 PM
You are incorrect. The Core 2 family of processors are 64 bit processors.... they support 64 bit integer math, they support load/store using 64 bit virtual addresses (also at least 40 bit of physical), sport 64 bit wide register file, they support the larger register set enabled by EM64T, etc.
Could Shadowfax or Shawnce or someone else who knows describe a little more about the implications of the upgrade from Yonah to Merom? I'm trying to decide whether to get a Macbook or wait, I'm not that worried about the minor speed boost, but I am more concerned about longer term compatibility (say with mac OS or Windows). If there's going to be a point in a couple of years where the difference between Yonah and Merom is the difference between running the latest version of the OS or not, then I might wait. But if it's only speed and heat, I'll probably go for the Yonah (after WWDC) and live with not having the speed and lower heat that the upgrade brings.
Could Shadowfax or Shawnce or someone else who knows describe a little more about the implications of the upgrade from Yonah to Merom? I'm trying to decide whether to get a Macbook or wait, I'm not that worried about the minor speed boost, but I am more concerned about longer term compatibility (say with mac OS or Windows). If there's going to be a point in a couple of years where the difference between Yonah and Merom is the difference between running the latest version of the OS or not, then I might wait. But if it's only speed and heat, I'll probably go for the Yonah (after WWDC) and live with not having the speed and lower heat that the upgrade brings.
ClimbingTheLog
Jul 20, 01:04 PM
I hate to burst everyone's bubble, but Kentsfield will not be appearing in any of the Pro machines for some time.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
Apple doesn't get to operate in a bubble anymore - in Intel Land you have to compete. If they executed your plan, Dell would just go and make a "workstation" with dual Kentsfield and Apple will get crushed in Photoshop benchmarks. No way they're going to allow that.
Apple will be using them exclusively in the Xserves, at for the most part of 2007. This will finally give Apple another way to distinguish their server line from their pro line.
Apple doesn't get to operate in a bubble anymore - in Intel Land you have to compete. If they executed your plan, Dell would just go and make a "workstation" with dual Kentsfield and Apple will get crushed in Photoshop benchmarks. No way they're going to allow that.
HyperZboy
Apr 7, 01:52 PM
lol... You really think Intel is the reason Apple laptops cost what they do? Really?
I never said I considered it overpriced.
I was making a point that it's now underpowered for some users and less powerful than the previous model.
And another point... I'm not really blaming Apple. Obviously, it's Intel's fault for forcing the Intel graphics on Apple, among other companies that plan to use the new CPUs and Intel logic boards.
For many people with the current model, the new Macbook Air will be a downgrade unless you really need some of the other new features.
I never said I considered it overpriced.
I was making a point that it's now underpowered for some users and less powerful than the previous model.
And another point... I'm not really blaming Apple. Obviously, it's Intel's fault for forcing the Intel graphics on Apple, among other companies that plan to use the new CPUs and Intel logic boards.
For many people with the current model, the new Macbook Air will be a downgrade unless you really need some of the other new features.
JoeG4
Apr 25, 03:08 PM
http://www.bgr.com/2011/04/22/google-our-smartphone-location-tracking-is-opt-in/
Just like iOS, the data is opt-in on Android Phones - better yet, Google tells you what they're going to do with it if you opt-in, unlike Apple.
Also: iTunes communicates with iPods and iPhones over an encrypted tunnel, both iOS and iTunes are fairly closed source to the point that they MIGHT be using this information and not telling you.
Either way, the fact that Apple never asks is disturbing, and BOTH practices should be illegal. To what benefit is this information to them? Opt-in for traffic status on navigation would be fair IF the navigation program (which is free with Android phones) was in use - that I could understand.
The amount of sensationalism and Apple apologism here as usual, is kinda sad. Lemme get this straight, you're ashamed of people standing up for their right to privacy? Personally I think MS and Google should also be banned from collecting this type of data unless they tell the user what they're doing with it in large print (and 1 sentence) and allow you to opt out.
Just like iOS, the data is opt-in on Android Phones - better yet, Google tells you what they're going to do with it if you opt-in, unlike Apple.
Also: iTunes communicates with iPods and iPhones over an encrypted tunnel, both iOS and iTunes are fairly closed source to the point that they MIGHT be using this information and not telling you.
Either way, the fact that Apple never asks is disturbing, and BOTH practices should be illegal. To what benefit is this information to them? Opt-in for traffic status on navigation would be fair IF the navigation program (which is free with Android phones) was in use - that I could understand.
The amount of sensationalism and Apple apologism here as usual, is kinda sad. Lemme get this straight, you're ashamed of people standing up for their right to privacy? Personally I think MS and Google should also be banned from collecting this type of data unless they tell the user what they're doing with it in large print (and 1 sentence) and allow you to opt out.
shamino
Jul 20, 11:28 AM
Not quite the first. Sun has been shipping a commercial 8-core systems for about a year now.
Yes. This is their UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) chip.
The T2000 has all 8 cores on one chip but each core also does four-way hyper threading so they claim 32 hardware threads.
The T1 chip ships in several different configurations. 4-, 6- and 8-cores, at 1.0 or 1.2GHz. All sporting 4 threads per core.
The price for an 8-core T1000 is about $8K.
While this is their least expensive 8-core box, you should point out (for the benefit of everyone else reading this message) that the price is not just for the CPU. It's for a high-end server that includes 8G of RAM, 4 Gigabit Ethernet ports, remote management software, Java Enterprise, and Solaris 10. All in a 1U-high rack chassis.
A system with 8 cores and 8GB RAM burns about 250W.
You are being very misleading here. According to Sun's spec sheet (http://www.sun.com/servers/coolthreads/t1000/specifications.jsp), it has a 300W power supply. Peak power consumption for the entire system is 220W, and typical consumption is 180W.
But those are for the entire system. Sun's page on the UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) processor itself says that the CPU (in its 32-thread configuration) consumes 72W. The rest of that power consumption is from parts other than the CPU.
It's also worth noting Intel's Xeon spec sheet (http://www.intel.com/products/processor/xeon/specs.htm), which lists the fastest chips as consuming 130W for the CPU package alone! And that is with only four threads (two cores with 2-way hyperthreading.) I can guarantee you that a system based on one of these will have peak power consumption far greater than 220W.
Yes. This is their UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) chip.
The T2000 has all 8 cores on one chip but each core also does four-way hyper threading so they claim 32 hardware threads.
The T1 chip ships in several different configurations. 4-, 6- and 8-cores, at 1.0 or 1.2GHz. All sporting 4 threads per core.
The price for an 8-core T1000 is about $8K.
While this is their least expensive 8-core box, you should point out (for the benefit of everyone else reading this message) that the price is not just for the CPU. It's for a high-end server that includes 8G of RAM, 4 Gigabit Ethernet ports, remote management software, Java Enterprise, and Solaris 10. All in a 1U-high rack chassis.
A system with 8 cores and 8GB RAM burns about 250W.
You are being very misleading here. According to Sun's spec sheet (http://www.sun.com/servers/coolthreads/t1000/specifications.jsp), it has a 300W power supply. Peak power consumption for the entire system is 220W, and typical consumption is 180W.
But those are for the entire system. Sun's page on the UltraSPARC T1 (http://www.sun.com/processors/UltraSPARC-T1/) processor itself says that the CPU (in its 32-thread configuration) consumes 72W. The rest of that power consumption is from parts other than the CPU.
It's also worth noting Intel's Xeon spec sheet (http://www.intel.com/products/processor/xeon/specs.htm), which lists the fastest chips as consuming 130W for the CPU package alone! And that is with only four threads (two cores with 2-way hyperthreading.) I can guarantee you that a system based on one of these will have peak power consumption far greater than 220W.
epitaphic
Aug 18, 11:46 PM
So you think they put an extra processor in across the line just to be able to say they had a quad? Even the AnandTech article you used as a source showed here (http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2816&p=18) that PS took advantage of quad cores in Rosetta
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
Yes under some specific results the quad was a bit faster than the dual. Though with the combo of Rosetta+Photoshop its unclear what is causing the difference. However, if you compare the vast majority of the benchmarks, there's negligible difference.
Concerning Photoshop specifically, as can be experienced on a quad G5, the performance increase is 15-20%. A future jump to 8-core would theoretically be in the 8% increase mark. Photoshop (CS2) simply cannot scale adequately beyond 2 cores, maybe that'll change in Spring 2007. Fingers crossed it does.
Your points about latency and FSB are not separate negatives as you have made them. They are redundant theoretical concerns with implications of unclear practical significance.
I beg to differ. If an app or game is memory intensive, faster memory access does matter. Barefeats (http://barefeats.com/quad09.html) has some benchmarks on dual channel vs quad channel on the Mac Pro. I'd personally like to see that benchmark with an added Conroe system. If dual to quad channel gave 16-25% improvement, imagine what 75% increase in actual bandwidth will do. Besides, I was merely addressing your statements that Woodcrest is faster because of its higher speed FSB and higher memory bus bandwidth.
I am not worried. Everything anyone has come up with on this issue are taken from that same AnandTech article. Until I see more real-world testing, I will not be convinced. Also, I expect that more pro apps such as PS will be able to utilize quad cores in the near future, if they aren't already doing so. Finally, even if Conroe is faster, Woodcrest is fast enough for me ;).
Anandtech, at the moment, is the only place with a quad xeon vs dual xeon benchmark. And yes, dual Woodcrest is fast enough, but is it cost effective compared to a single Woodcrest/Conroe? It seems that for the most part, Mac Pro users are paying for an extra chip but only really utilizing it when running several CPU intensive apps at the same time.
I think you misread that. They were comparing Core 2 Extreme (not Woodcrest) and Conroe to see whether the increased FSB of the former would make much difference.
You're absolutely right about that, its only measuring the improvement over increased FSB. If you take into account FB-DIMM's appalling efficiency, there should be no increase at all (if not decrease) for memory intensive apps.
One question I'd like to put out there, if Apple has had a quad core mac shipping for the past 8 months, why would it wait til intel quads to optimize the code for FCP? Surely they must have known for some time before that that they would release a quad core G5 so either optimizing FCP for quads is a real bastard or they've been sitting on it for no reason.
whooleytoo
Apr 27, 09:08 AM
Does anyone have any photoshop skills? If so, do you want to do up some mock 'iPhone location maps'?
E.g. Charlie Sheen's, F1 driver's (lots of little circles around the world), Bin Laden's/Gadaffi's (hiding under a rock somewhere) etc.. etc..
:p
E.g. Charlie Sheen's, F1 driver's (lots of little circles around the world), Bin Laden's/Gadaffi's (hiding under a rock somewhere) etc.. etc..
:p
yoak
Apr 11, 08:28 AM
Then that just begs the question, "why haven't these people left already?" FCP has been fairly stagnant for years. There are plenty of other alternatives, so doesn't that kinda make them fanboyish too for sticking it out when up to this point Apple has given zero hints about when or how it will take FCP to the next level?
I'm not in the video editing biz, but if the pro s/w I use in my profession hobbled my efficiency and workflow the way you are carping about FCP, and there were viable alternatives, I would abandon it quicker than pigeon can snatch a bread crumb. Just sayin'.
It's costly to change. It takes time to learn new software, time that could be spent working instead. Then it's all the money already invested in the platform.
At least here, premiere is not really an option if you work in broadcast or film since everyone either use final cut or avid
I'm not in the video editing biz, but if the pro s/w I use in my profession hobbled my efficiency and workflow the way you are carping about FCP, and there were viable alternatives, I would abandon it quicker than pigeon can snatch a bread crumb. Just sayin'.
It's costly to change. It takes time to learn new software, time that could be spent working instead. Then it's all the money already invested in the platform.
At least here, premiere is not really an option if you work in broadcast or film since everyone either use final cut or avid
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